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Author Topic: reptile shows in WA?  (Read 7196 times)

Offline adderboy

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Re: reptile shows in WA?
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2010, 10:14:35 AM »
Reg 16.  Not all reg 16 Licence holders are permitted to show their reptiles.  Only Reg 16s issued for public education can do so.  I held a Reg 16 for many years, but was not permitted to show my snakes as the licence was for scientific research only.  There would be a few in WA who are permitted do public displays and I think we probably know who most of those are.

Reptile shows?  Great way to spread the word, but potentially a great way to spread infections and parasites.  I'd want to be pretty confident about the quarantine arrangements before taking my reptiles into a show where reptiles from other collections are on display.  We aren't even 100% certain yet about how some of the more esoteric (but deadly) snake diseases are spread.  Hmm.

I think people like Gary, Brian Bush, Klaas Gaikhorst and so on do a great job given the limitations of the system, but they show only their reptiles.  And maybe that's the safest option.

S

steve1

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Re: reptile shows in WA?
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2010, 02:18:20 PM »
Adderboy  What did your reg 16 for scientific research allow you to do? I was under the impression that regulation 16 was for educational display

Offline adderboy

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Re: reptile shows in WA?
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2010, 03:46:25 PM »
Reg 16s can be issued for a variety of purposes, and prior to the pet keeping system they were the only way a person could keep reptiles in this State.  There were very few on issue.  Some were for educational display, but others were for research - eg obtaining breeding data on species (a few people, including myself, had such licences), and biological data (eg one person I think at UWA had a licence to keep monitors to examine their respiration patterns, etc). 

This remains the case - DEC can still issue Reg 16s for such purposes.  So, for instance, let's say someone had a valid reason for obtaining breeding data on a species not on the keeper's list, they could apply to DEC, and if DEC agreed, specimens could be ontained and kept under the terms of that licence.  However, DEC are not inclined to issue such Reg 16s easily.  You'd also need significant backing - either through your own qualifications or those of a recognised institution; and DEC would have to be convinced that such research is of merit and that you had the necessary skills to conduct it.

I was lucky in having the backing of the WA Museum at the time.

But we're getting off-track here. 

S

steve1

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Re: reptile shows in WA?
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2010, 04:08:19 PM »
So when applying for reg 16 you would state which animals and whether or not they would be used for personal research or public information and or display ? If the animal was for personal research then I would presume it was not on the keepers list,  would you then have needed reg 17 to obtain it? from what I can gather each individual that has reg 16 licenses is subject to there own seperate  conditions

Offline adderboy

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Re: reptile shows in WA?
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2010, 04:15:50 PM »
DEC can put whatever conditions they like on a Reg 16, according to the purposes for which the licence was issued.

By the way, "personal research" probably won't cut it.  If it did, it would open a back door to the keepers system, and that's not going to happen.  As I said, you'd probably need the backing of a recognised institution. 

Better to ask someone who has a Reg 16 for educational purposes about conditions, etc.  I've never had a licence for that.

S


steve1

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Re: reptile shows in WA?
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2010, 05:06:01 PM »
Thanks Adderboy I am not thinking of applying for reg 16 anyway, I just like to know these things. If there are people in WA that have reg 16 with conditions allowing public display and an interest in being part of a SHOW\EXPO maybe you could post on this thread after all even the greatest things start with a single Idea.


Offline eracer

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Re: reptile shows in WA?
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2010, 05:38:16 AM »
Yes there are a number of Reg 16 holders and conditions vary. But DEC is also tightening up. Just recently that squashed most of the Reg 16 holders that were running Venomous Snake Relocation Training (VSRT) as some people were doing a horrendous job of it and someone was going to get killed.

If you want to run an expo or snake show you need to identify the main objective. If it is just to raise awareness within the general non-rep public, then you would just jump into an existing show, like the Dowerin Field Day or even the Royal Show. More people, less effort, more awareness, less pressure.

If you wanted a show purely for reptile enthusiasts, then this is feasable but would it be any different/better/bigger than the average WASAH meeting?

I mean, if there was a bit of money in it Gayne Doyle could easily bring a massive display to a show. So could Brian Bush. Garry Davies mobile displays are pretty diverse, and I think Kens wife from Rocky Reptiles has a diversity of animals also. But then why not just organise a massive HERP FESTIVAL at the WA Reptile Park. There are 3 pages of discussion on how we should support them. They have barbeque facilities, plenty of space. We would just need to organise to BYO. Then to make it better we could just organise a retail with products to bring down a products display. Then organise one of the food suppliers to come down so we can hassle them about why we cant ever get crickets or mice.

Just a thought




Offline Megz

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Re: reptile shows in WA?
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2010, 07:29:35 AM »
I think Kens wife from Rocky Reptiles has a diversity of animals also.

Sorry for being off topic but just quickly - is this the same as Radical Reptiles? What is Rocky Reptiles and do they have a shop somewhere?  Had a quick look on google but mainly Reptile Trader stuff came up.  Thanks :)

steve1

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Re: reptile shows in WA?
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2010, 08:17:57 AM »
Megz Rocky reptiles is Reptile trader, and Radical Reptiles  deals with Education and Displays etc  but they are both Ken and Karen

Offline carpetcleaner

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Re: reptile shows in WA?
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2010, 08:24:45 AM »
I think you may find that there are conflicting interests and some old issues that would prevent these three all getting together to showcase anything at all.
Gary already has an affiliation with the Doyle's being there Senior Reptile Handler for many years, so I would say that these two entities would be more than sufficient to showcase a "Reptile Show" if one was so desired.
A better option would be to have a night of the WAHS meeting dedicated to the long standing efforts of Gayne Doyle Senior, who as I am aware, is suffering ill health. I am sure Gary would be willing to support such an idea, as would most of the herping community. If such a night was to unfold, I would probably even be inclined to travel the many miles to Perth to attend such an event.
Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching. Sing like nobody's listening. Live like it's Heaven on Earth.

steve1

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Re: reptile shows in WA?
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2010, 08:50:16 AM »
Eracer, I think with a bit of advertising it could be much bigger than the average WAHS meeting. Even the people who profess to have a fear of snakes, I find are generally curious about them. If you advertised say at schools and promo it as being educational and such It could turn out to be a big event, the few times I've seen a reptile display at a fair the crowd has been Quite large.
From a couple of dealers I have spoken to the hobby seems to have some what plateaued, with sales down and prices dropping, the only way to counter price drops is to increase volume of sales, the best way to increase volume of sales is to be seen. I think the price of reptiles has stunted the hobbies growth in WA,and much of the problem  is because of DEC licenses.
I would love to see this hobby grow, and think an event like this could really be beneficial.

CC, I think you may be right about getting some people together at a show but surely the benefits outweigh  the negatives

Offline Snowman

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Re: reptile shows in WA?
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2010, 01:06:47 PM »
I'm probably missing the point here.   
But it seems the shows over east have a lot of unusual specimens on display.  Like the melanistic and albino bluey's or even things like the different gecko morphs we were shown at WAHS the other month. In some cases they can bring animals from interstate. What would we show case in a WA expo that we can't already see at a reptile park or WAHS meeting?  I'm all for seeing what people in WA are breeding and keeping. And love looking through forums seeing the thousands of pictures etc...
I think some of the stalls they have at these expo's for herp equipment would be interesting.  But again they are eastern state based and would hardly make enough sales to cover the costs lugging it all over to WA for maybe 100 people who will mainly look and not buy.  I surf the net way too much and I'm reasonably aware of what's out there and buy most of my stuff online. 
I agree it would be good to see the hobby grow.  It seems if people are around they'll take a look.  This was evident at the WAHS meeting we had at the surf club. So maybe displays in malls would bring more awareness?  But I think it's a fine line between being a herp enthusiast and understanding the husbandry that comes with keeping reptiles and buying a python like you'd buy a goldfish with no knowledge or homework involved.
Prices will continue to drop as more people breed.  Our prices are still higher than the eastern staters. And sales are way down over there too with surplus stock of some species and of course the economy having an effect on disposable income.... Just my humble opinion.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2010, 01:18:11 PM by snowman »

Offline adderboy

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Re: reptile shows in WA?
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2010, 01:53:54 PM »

Prices will continue to drop as more people breed. Our prices are still higher than the eastern staters. And sales are way down over there too with surplus stock of some species and of course the economy having an effect on disposable income.... Just my humble opinion.

Good post, Snowman.  All the points you make are valid.  I'm not sure expos here are likely to happen given the licensing restrictions, and even if they were permitted I doubt they would be sustainable for quite a while - if ever.

With regard to prices, I think they will eventually drop further here, but they have already come down quite a bit on average.  I suspect we'll see prices fluctuate down on occasion to "Eastern State" levels as breeders seek to sell excess progeny, but the cost of licensing, etc will maintain a "floor" in our prices for a bit longer.
I did see some antaresias (can't remember which sp.) on APS going FREE recently.  They went pretty quickly, but it was interesting in the context of how slow the industry is over there at present.  You can currently buy hatchie NSW coastals (M.s.mcdowelli) for $120 each, etc.  It will be a while before prices here fall to that level.
But prices is another discussion, really and I don't want to divert the thread.

I think it's interesting that some people would like to see an expo held here, but we won't see anything of the kind for some time.  Growing the hobby is a desirable thing, I agree, but we can't expect it to get to be anything like what there is in most other states because we've only been going here for a few years, we have a smaller population anyway, etc, etc.  For the time being, we are fortunate in having Gary D, Brian Bush and the various reptile parks here with most of the species we're able to keep (and then some).  Meanwhile, if people want to display their own animals, forums like this provide the perfect opportunity to do so without risk of passing on/contracting disease and so on.

I'm not trying to knock those who are keen to see an expo happen, I wish you good luck, but there are plenty of obstacles.

S



Offline Bluetongue

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Re: reptile shows in WA?
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2010, 08:15:51 PM »
Queensland has the smallest population of the big three eastern states (but it is still twice that of WA) and they host only one reptile expo per year. SA has three quarters of our population and have had licensed reptiles since 1972 and do not host a reptile expo. So I think we can safely conclude that WA is not likely to host an expo in the foreseeable future, based on population size and development of the keeping system. (As Adderboy indicated).

Id like to make the point that expos are designed for the converted. They are not particularly about getting new people interested in the hobby. They are more about letting converts know whats new and what they can spend their dollars on.

For those that dont know, Reg 16s like Busho, Gary D. and Dave Manning are often employed by shopping centres during the holidays to put on displays and answer questions from the general public. During school time they also do displays for any school that wants to organise them. So people like them do a hell of a lot to promote the hobby that many may be totally unaware of.

My priority is to try and promote the hobby in WA. Suggestions like having a display at shows like the Dowerin Field Day and the Royal Agricultural Show would be a great way to do that. The difficulty is that it basically requires someone to pay one of our educational Reg 16s to do that. WAHS had an invitation from the Finch Society to set up a display at their annual bird show and sale but no-one volunteered to assist. I dont have a problem with this because if you do something for a living it is not good business to start doing it for free at the same time. This is why I say we need to be prepared to pay someone to do it. In addition to that, I believe we should have a number of others who are experienced keepers assisting by answering questions from the public. These people could be volunteers.

I must say that it is good to see a number of individuals thinking along the same lines. Thank you.

Mike



Offline Allan

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Re: reptile shows in WA?
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2013, 10:55:38 PM »
Really interesting reading back on these posts from 2010. Amazing how much changes in 3 years.

 

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